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    Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

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    Bf
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Bf on 2013-07-17, 01:05

    Woah, woah, woah, pregnant women must take part in fasting? That's just silly, I'm sorry. I don't care what you believe in, but that's not right. What God would ask that of them?

    To anyone who's Muslim.... questions: is fasting required for the sick, pregnant, elderly, etc.?  

    I seriously doubt it....

    (no disrespect meant either, and I admire people who have the willpower to do fast for an entire month as well)
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Ali on 2013-07-17, 01:20

    Sean wrote:Woah, woah, woah, pregnant women must take part in fasting? That's just silly, I'm sorry. I don't care what you believe in, but that's not right. What God would ask that of them?

    To anyone who's Muslim.... questions: is fasting required for the sick, pregnant, elderly, etc.?  

    I seriously doubt it....

    (no disrespect meant either, and I admire people who have the willpower to do fast for an entire month as well)

    Ofcourse The sick, pregnant, kids, elderly and people who need to take medicine are exempt from fasting. It's actually discouraged to fast if you are pregnant or sick or old.


    Last edited by Ali on 2013-07-17, 01:21; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Tom's Slave on 2013-07-17, 01:21

    Sean wrote:Woah, woah, woah, pregnant women must take part in fasting? That's just silly, I'm sorry. I don't care what you believe in, but that's not right. What God would ask that of them?

    To anyone who's Muslim.... questions: is fasting required for the sick, pregnant, elderly, etc.?  

    I seriously doubt it....

    (no disrespect meant either, and I admire people who have the willpower to do fast for an entire month as well)

    You have to consult a fiqh resource to see if any accommodations can be made (http://islam.about.com/od/ramadan/f/fasting_req.htm).
    It's not something that's forced per say but generally most Islamic people practice it. And you have to put yourself in the position of those type of people..ego, family pressure, pride.. all of those things could potentially lead someone to practice the tradition despite any health condition that that person may have.
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Tom's Slave on 2013-07-17, 01:23

    Ali wrote:
    Sean wrote:Woah, woah, woah, pregnant women must take part in fasting? That's just silly, I'm sorry. I don't care what you believe in, but that's not right. What God would ask that of them?

    To anyone who's Muslim.... questions: is fasting required for the sick, pregnant, elderly, etc.?  

    I seriously doubt it....

    (no disrespect meant either, and I admire people who have the willpower to do fast for an entire month as well)

    Ofcourse The sick, pregnant, kids, elderly and people who need to take medicine are exempt from fasting. It's actually discouraged to fast if you are pregnant or sick or old.

     Yeah, this is probably true. I'm just going off of what I read by Steven Levitt lol. Razz
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Ali on 2013-07-17, 01:26

    Mr XK wrote:
    Sean wrote:Woah, woah, woah, pregnant women must take part in fasting? That's just silly, I'm sorry. I don't care what you believe in, but that's not right. What God would ask that of them?

    To anyone who's Muslim.... questions: is fasting required for the sick, pregnant, elderly, etc.?  

    I seriously doubt it....

    (no disrespect meant either, and I admire people who have the willpower to do fast for an entire month as well)

    You have to consult a fiqh resource to see if any accommodations can be made (http://islam.about.com/od/ramadan/f/fasting_req.htm).
    It's not something that's forced per say but generally most Islamic people practice it. And you have to put yourself in the position of those type of people..ego, family pressure, pride.. all of those things could potentially lead someone to practice the tradition despite any health condition that that person may have.

     People who are exempt from and discouraged to fast are:

    "Women who are Bleeding during Menstruation of Child-Birth
    The Sick, and Persons Traveling
    Pregnant and Nursing Women
    Old Age
    Children"
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Tom's Slave on 2013-07-17, 01:45

    Ali wrote:
    Mr XK wrote:
    Sean wrote:Woah, woah, woah, pregnant women must take part in fasting? That's just silly, I'm sorry. I don't care what you believe in, but that's not right. What God would ask that of them?

    To anyone who's Muslim.... questions: is fasting required for the sick, pregnant, elderly, etc.?  

    I seriously doubt it....

    (no disrespect meant either, and I admire people who have the willpower to do fast for an entire month as well)

    You have to consult a fiqh resource to see if any accommodations can be made (http://islam.about.com/od/ramadan/f/fasting_req.htm).
    It's not something that's forced per say but generally most Islamic people practice it. And you have to put yourself in the position of those type of people..ego, family pressure, pride.. all of those things could potentially lead someone to practice the tradition despite any health condition that that person may have.

     People who are exempt from and discouraged to fast are:

    "Women who are Bleeding during Menstruation of Child-Birth
    The Sick, and Persons Traveling
    Pregnant and Nursing Women
    Old Age
    Children"

    Ahh okay, that seems a lot more intuitive Razz. I guess just some people (those on the list) feel obligated to do it..? And that's where health drawbacks may come.
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Rand al'Thor on 2013-07-17, 01:59

    ^

    I found this:

    http://www.qss.org/articles/ramadan/5.html

    It has quotations from various Hadith which you can authenticate for yourselves.
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Tom's Slave on 2013-07-17, 02:14

    Rand al'Thor wrote:^

    I found this:

    http://www.qss.org/articles/ramadan/5.html

    It has quotations from various Hadith which you can authenticate for yourselves.

    That's interesting. I read through the section about pregnant women. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what concessions actually have to be made? Like do they do their fast at a later time?

    Anyways...my original point was that there are some people who are devout enough to do anything for their religion... whether they be ill, insane, or have any of the aforementioned ailments that you guys provided. And although it might be socially correct for them NOT to fast, they [b style="font-style: italic;"]may [/b]do it anyways. I just used my grandma for example because I know she would do anything for her faith. 

    Not really looking to argue with anyone, b/c hey you guys probably know a lot more than I do, and I'm not really in the position to say anything about what I read about Ramadan. I still have a TON of respect for the holiday, and I applaud anybody who has the mental toughness to go through thirty days of fasting.
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Rand al'Thor on 2013-07-17, 02:42

    Mr XK wrote:
    Rand al'Thor wrote:^

    I found this:

    http://www.qss.org/articles/ramadan/5.html

    It has quotations from various Hadith which you can authenticate for yourselves.

    That's interesting. I read through the section about pregnant women. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what concessions actually have to be made? Like do they do their fast at a later time?

    Anyways...my original point was that there are some people who are devout enough to do anything for their religion... whether they be ill, insane, or have any of the aforementioned ailments that you guys provided. And although it might be socially correct for them NOT to fast, they [b style="font-style: italic;"][i]may [/i][/b]do it anyways. I just used my grandma for example because I know she would do anything for her faith. 

    Not really looking to argue with anyone, b/c hey you guys probably know a lot more than I do, and I'm not really in the position to say anything about what I read about Ramadan. I still have a TON of respect for the holiday, and I applaud anybody who has the mental toughness to go through thirty days of fasting.
    It's in the section Razz

    There are two opinions described; one where she just needs to pay the fidyah and another where she needs to fast on a later date in addition to paying the compensation, which is to pay a Mudd to a poor person.

    You're completely right in your second paragraph, btw. Some people just take everything to the extreme, not just religion, and, well... :/
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Bf on 2013-07-17, 03:04

    Reading what you posted, rand. Good point --
    And you have to put yourself in the position of those type of people..ego, family pressure, pride.. all of those things could potentially lead someone to practice the tradition despite any health condition that that person may have.
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Lelz on 2013-07-17, 03:13

    Ramdan, is not that you don't eat, when you fast, you fast from everything wrong.

    That's why it's called the month of forgiveness, generosity and kindness, many people help poor people during ramdan.

    When you fast, you are fasting from bad thoughts, like porn extra...

    and for the sick, they are not forced to fast like sypher said.

    and they can fast at later time, to replace the time missed in ramdan.

    Ramdan is actually my favorite month ;p, I like how we eat with the family, with a big meal xD
     and there is a certain age you have to start fasting, but you can do it any age according to the person, the age is 16/17 or when he hit puberty, i am not sure.


    and if you masturbate during ramadan, it will break your fasting, masturbating is haram in islam anyways :p


    Last edited by Lelz on 2013-07-17, 03:16; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Rand al'Thor on 2013-07-17, 03:16

    Sean wrote:Reading what you posted, rand. Good point --
    And you have to put yourself in the position of those type of people..ego, family pressure, pride.. all of those things could potentially lead someone to practice the tradition despite any health condition that that person may have.
    I agreed with that, Idk why he went back on it, or seemed to, anyway, lol.
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Ali on 2013-07-17, 03:16

    Sean wrote:Reading what you posted, rand. Good point --
    And you have to put yourself in the position of those type of people..ego, family pressure, pride.. all of those things could potentially lead someone to practice the tradition despite any health condition that that person may have.

     Some people, even muslims can be mis informed. If fasting will have negative effects on your health then it's actually wrong to fast unless you can handle it and aren't intentionally fasting regardless of the awareness of medical conditions.


    I was sick for a week during last ramadan and I didn't fast. I didn't feel the urge to fast even though everyone was fasting. because I know it would be wrong for me to hurt myself like that.

    It's just some people are ill informed and end up fasting anyways. Neutral
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Ali on 2013-07-17, 03:18

    Speaking of fasting, I'm about to finally eat in 20 Minutes Smile

    Such a big dinner prepared, I'm ready Very Happy
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Understand on 2013-07-17, 04:28

    Lelz wrote:Ramdan, is not that you don't eat, when you fast, you fast from everything wrong.

    That's why it's called the month of forgiveness, generosity and kindness, many people help poor people during ramdan.

    When you fast, you are fasting from bad thoughts, like porn extra...

    and for the sick, they are not forced to fast like sypher said.

    and they can fast at later time, to replace the time missed in ramdan.

    Ramdan is actually my favorite month ;p, I like how we eat with the family, with a big meal xD
     and there is a certain age you have to start fasting, but you can do it any age according to the person, the age is 16/17 or when he hit puberty, i am not sure.


    and if you masturbate during ramadan, it will break your fasting, masturbating is haram in islam anyways :p

    This clears everything up. Thanks for taking the time to post this Majed Smile

    What does it mean to fast? Most people think it's just fasting from 'food' from sunrise to sunset.
    Noooo, fasting means avoiding all sins and food. Avoiding sins and doing extra good deeds is what
    God asks us to do so that we may build our God-conscience and prosper spiritually. Patience is
    the keyword in Ramadan because Muslims obstain from what is wrong and enjoin what is good.
    I love this month so much because there is nothing else that can bring more hapiness than being
    closer to our Creator.

    Obstaining from food benefits:
    - cleans the insides of your body.
    - keeps the body in a healthier state
    - have a feel for what the needy go through

    Obstaining from sins benefits:
    - increase our faith
    - become a better person
    - increase our God-conscience

    And the Muslim is supposed to start fasting as soon as he/she hits puberty. I started at 12 years, same
    with my brother. My sister is on her way Smile (she's 10). 

    What we can't do while fasting:

    - speak bad behind people's back
    - use foul language
    - have sexual intercourse with our wives
    - masterbate
    - eat or drink
    - be prideful/boastful
    - there's more that I can't think of right now. These are generally forbidden without fasting, but doing them while fasting will break your fast.


    What is suggested to do while fasting:

    - read the Holy Book (Qur'an)
    - offer more prayers (usually done after sunset)
    - glorify God, ask for forgiveness, make supplication
    - attain as much knowledge as you can about Islam
    - and anything else that builds your character/spirituallity.
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Tom's Slave on 2013-07-17, 04:51

    Rand al'Thor wrote:
    Mr XK wrote:
    Rand al'Thor wrote:^

    I found this:

    http://www.qss.org/articles/ramadan/5.html

    It has quotations from various Hadith which you can authenticate for yourselves.

    That's interesting. I read through the section about pregnant women. Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what concessions actually have to be made? Like do they do their fast at a later time?

    Anyways...my original point was that there are some people who are devout enough to do anything for their religion... whether they be ill, insane, or have any of the aforementioned ailments that you guys provided. And although it might be socially correct for them NOT to fast, they [b style="font-style: italic;"][i][i][i]may [/i][/i][/i][/b]do it anyways. I just used my grandma for example because I know she would do anything for her faith. 

    Not really looking to argue with anyone, b/c hey you guys probably know a lot more than I do, and I'm not really in the position to say anything about what I read about Ramadan. I still have a TON of respect for the holiday, and I applaud anybody who has the mental toughness to go through thirty days of fasting.
    It's in the section Razz

    There are two opinions described; one where she just needs to pay the fidyah and another where she needs to fast on a later date in addition to paying the compensation, which is to pay a Mudd to a poor person.

    You're completely right in your second paragraph, btw. Some people just take everything to the extreme, not just religion, and, well... :/

     Oh wow. I read through it man. When it said "compensation", I didn't think it literally meant giving money to a fidyah. In any case, it's still very interesting.

    Rand al'Thor wrote:
    Sean wrote:Reading what you posted, rand. Good point --
    And you have to put yourself in the position of those type of people..ego, family pressure, pride.. all of those things could potentially lead someone to practice the tradition despite any health condition that that person may have.
    I agreed with that, Idk why he went back on it, or seemed to, anyway, lol.

    If it seems like I went back on that point, I did haha. When I made my post, I was trying to show that the TRADITION had some medical drawbacks (e.g. the correlation b/t child infancy mortality and the Ramadan season). When Sypher and you told me that people can abstain from participating via payment and/or recursion of the process, I changed my opinion a little bit. B/c then the burden is on the person, and, if that person isn't in the right health situation, then quite frankly the fault is due to that person, not the culture.

    Anyways, I hope all of you enjoy your Ramadan. Smile
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Sanne on 2013-07-17, 16:42

    Mr XK wrote:
    Rand al'Thor wrote:
    Jon wrote:
    Sanne wrote:Jon you should open your eyes for other cultures a little bit more jesus.
    I accept cultures but that doesn't mean that I can't criticize them. That's what we were taught to do in Religious Studies. This tradition just doesn't make any sense.
    Why? What's nonsensical about it?

     Half of my family is devoutly Islamic, and I have to say I partially agree with Jon. Hopefully, I'm not offending anybody, but I guess  my views started to change when I read Super Freakonomics. One of the first chapters had to do with the myth of child impairment when a baby was born in April. Apparently, in the Middle East especially, there was a high incident rate of mental and physical disabilities in children born in ~the month of April.

    "Pregnant Muslim women who took part in Ramadan fasting had babies who grew up to have  higher incidence of visual, hearing, or learning disabilities. As a result, certain cohorts (by birthdays) of Muslims have disproportionately higher incidence of such disabilities". 

    This is something I found online that gives a good synopsis of what the author was trying to get across. And don't get me wrong, it's such a great cause, and I admire everyone who does it. Heck, half my family practices the tradition. All I am saying is that there are certain health risks you need to recognize before you practice the tradition. My great grandmother who is like 85 had to go to the hospital last year b/c of her low caloric intake during Ramadan...so yeah, I agree that it's really notable and admirable..but there are some drawbacks to your health.

    I'm reading their first book now :-]
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Tom's Slave on 2013-07-17, 19:48

    Sanne wrote:
    Mr XK wrote:
    Rand al'Thor wrote:
    Jon wrote:
    Sanne wrote:Jon you should open your eyes for other cultures a little bit more jesus.
    I accept cultures but that doesn't mean that I can't criticize them. That's what we were taught to do in Religious Studies. This tradition just doesn't make any sense.
    Why? What's nonsensical about it?

     Half of my family is devoutly Islamic, and I have to say I partially agree with Jon. Hopefully, I'm not offending anybody, but I guess  my views started to change when I read Super Freakonomics. One of the first chapters had to do with the myth of child impairment when a baby was born in April. Apparently, in the Middle East especially, there was a high incident rate of mental and physical disabilities in children born in ~the month of April.

    "Pregnant Muslim women who took part in Ramadan fasting had babies who grew up to have  higher incidence of visual, hearing, or learning disabilities. As a result, certain cohorts (by birthdays) of Muslims have disproportionately higher incidence of such disabilities". 

    This is something I found online that gives a good synopsis of what the author was trying to get across. And don't get me wrong, it's such a great cause, and I admire everyone who does it. Heck, half my family practices the tradition. All I am saying is that there are certain health risks you need to recognize before you practice the tradition. My great grandmother who is like 85 had to go to the hospital last year b/c of her low caloric intake during Ramadan...so yeah, I agree that it's really notable and admirable..but there are some drawbacks to your health.

    I'm reading their first book now :-]

    Freakonomics? Yeah, they have a knack of taking really controversial topics and entertaining a very rational, unique position. Super Freakonomics was a bit of a let-down, but I think you'll enjoy the first one Razz.
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    Re: Ramadan is this Wednesday :)

    Post by Naseem on 2013-07-17, 20:04

    it took me awhile to read everyone's comments lol , but yeah nice to see everythings cleared up

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